bague avec monogramme

Bonsoir!
I have done it again - another piece of practice. It is a ring made of Sterling Silver.
You'll tell me, if you don't want to see engravings anymore, i don't hope
To know, how to use a graver, can be very helpful in our craft, not least for setting stones.

Dear M A R I O'

You are a great '' artisan ''.

This ring is realy wonderful and the design also.

I have one question for you, Mario.....................is this ring made entierely by hand ?

I hope to see often ( all ) your work.

Thank you very, much for your writting, now I am sure to have a good day, after the look of this ''magnifique '' work.

Michel Zim

Admin a écrit:

I have one question for you, Mario.....................is this ring made entierely by hand ?

Hello Michel, you want to know, if this ring was casted - right? Yes, it was casted by me using the backbone (i used three pieces of it) of a sepia (cuttlefish - "ossa sepia"). The provenance model was done by hand only of course. After casting i removed the rough surface, then the ring was forged, smoothed using emery paper and then engraved by hand.

Dear Mario,

I am desapointed, because it is possible to make same one entirely by hand, and in this case your engraving will have a longer life.

Sorry....but your design is realy great.

Have a very good day.

Michel Zim

I am sorry to read you're disappointed. Of course it is possible to make same one entirely. Like i wrote in my answer, the original was done in this way. Would you please explain, why the engraving on an entirely made ring would live longer?

Hello Mario,

Because, and it a long long debate here,the ardness is not the same when it is a casting than a pice made from a plate coming from a rolling-mills.

Maybe you have see the difference between a same piece in casting and an other one made entierely by hand, the life of the first one is shorter than the second one.

Ask to the man who make setting in jewelry, wich one is stonger, casting or entierely by hand ? He will say to you the difference about this hardness.

It is difficult to explain this in french for me , so in english, it will be realy more difficult.

Pleasure to speak with you, and sorry for the quality of my english.

Michel Zim

Mario a écrit:

I am sorry to read you're disappointed. Of course it is possible to make same one entirely. Like i wrote in my answer, the original was done in this way. Would you please explain, why the engraving on an entirely made ring would live longer?

ahaha Don't feel bad, it's just Michel hobby horse. Ich finde deinen ring sehr schön (sorry, my german is just downright horrible!)

Admin a écrit:

...the ardness is not the same when it is a casting than a pice made from a plate coming from a rolling-mills.

I understand, like Seb wrote, this is your area of expertise. Thats very good, i love metallurgy, too, because it is one key for high quality jewelry.

Ok, let's go into detail: i use Sterling Silver (925/000), it is an outereutectic alloy, every silver-copper alloy above 912,5 % is an outereutectic alloy. In practice that means, if you quench the hot alloy fast, the texture stays soft. If you quench it slowly, the texture tense to hard because of the place requirement of the beta mixed crystals.
The upper limit of hardness of this silver alloy is 160 HB (Brinell) - you can reach it (per segregate) by a temperature of 280 Celsius about 30 minutes, after that you quench it slowly on air.

But is this, what you want as a stone setter? A hart material? No - a stone setters best friend is a ductile material like eg. a Platinum-Palladium alloy or even a soft silver alloy. A ductile alloy for this ring? No - that wouldn't work - the engraving would go with the wind. A hardened alloy, like i described it above? Not really nice to engrave. So what do we need? I prefer a densified (forged) material. You will get there by using a rolling mill - good, but then you heat it, because you have to solder the pieces. So what will you get at the end? A soft material (quench fast) or a hardened material (quench slowly)? My material is a forged (compressed) one and it is free of soldering joint.

Which material would be the best to fabricate a ring like this? What do you think?

By the way, i understand your English well - hope you get mine

Seb a écrit:

Ich finde deinen ring sehr schön (sorry, my german is just downright horrible!)

Hallo Seb, Dein Satz hat mich erstens sehr erfreut und zweitens ist er ziemlich perfekt!
Ich muß das jetzt mal fragen, bitte nicht böse sein - stimmt es wirklich, dass Franzosen sehr empfindlich sind, was Verunglimpfungen bei ihrer Sprache anbelangt? Ist vermutlich wieder so ein doofes Vorurteil...

The engraving is just amazing!!!

You also really know how to use graphic programs and video cameras!

Do you do your engraving by hand or with an electric/electronic engraver??

Have a very nice day!!

LZX a écrit:

Do you do your engraving by hand or with an electric/electronic engraver??

There is no machine, no laser in the world, that could do this. I have used a hand push graver and a compressed air graver.

Mario a écrit:

Seb a écrit:

Ich finde deinen ring sehr schön (sorry, my german is just downright horrible!)

Hallo Seb, Dein Satz hat mich erstens sehr erfreut und zweitens ist er ziemlich perfekt!
Ich muß das jetzt mal fragen, bitte nicht böse sein - stimmt es wirklich, dass Franzosen sehr empfindlich sind, was Verunglimpfungen bei ihrer Sprache anbelangt? Ist vermutlich wieder so ein doofes Vorurteil...

I will have to switch back to english to answer you, I hope you won't mind.
Well, I can't speak for the others, so I will state my own opinion.
French is a difficult language so of course I will indulge errors ; Hell, I do some too. However, it makes my teeth cringe when the sheer amount of blatant syntax or/and spelling mistakes turns the text into an indecipherable gibberish.
This said, I will never make a derogatory remark to a foreigner who is trying to speak french, thats would be beyond retardation. Those who do that are just rude, bloody idiots.
The irony is that I’ve met foreigners who speak better french than most of my fellow countrymen, which is pretty hilarious (or sad, your opinion may vary) when you think about it.

What are for you the pros and cons of a hand pushed graver, of a compressed air graver??

Seb a écrit:

French is a difficult language...

Oh yes, it is
If you don't absorb it with the breast milk, it is - mainly for me - a very special language. Thank you for your statement.

LZX a écrit:

What are for you the pros and cons of a hand pushed graver, of a compressed air graver??

I like both. The hand push graver is cheap and easy to get, it trained the muscle and nerves very well. You can use it also for very fine work (bulino). It takes longer, to handle it correct. The handle of the air graver is much easier. They work very well, but they cost much more. They are useful for nearly every kind of engraving jobs.

Hello Mario I'm sorry for not having welcomed you earlier, now it's done, and I want to tell you the great pleasure that I was enjoying your tech.

have a nice day
Thierry

Thanks for the tips mario!!!

Sans mes recherches de videos je me demande si tu en serais a admirer ses oeuvres sur ce forum???
Tout est parti de la video sur le violon en argent...

Thank you for the welcome Thierry! I's a pleasure to be here.

Hi Mario !

I love this work you yours, and i believe that even if it has been casted, it is still a very good handwork, and I appreciate it a lot.

I think I can express what Michel wants to say a bout the hardness of the metal.

In fact when you work metal with any sort of pressure, be it rolling-mills, a simple hammer, or even a smoother pressure such as a surface pressure with another piece of metal, then you introduce some "displacements" between the well-organized atoms of the metal, and this just gives you some hardness.
When the atoms of a metal are well organized, very geometrically equidistant and all, the metal is smooth and it has some potential to "move" a bit. When the move is done, then you can't do it much again, and this is where the hardness comes from. If you then force it to move still, in fact it won't move, it will form cracks.

When you heat it up to red, the geometrical structure comes back a little, so it is smoother again, but the worst case is when it is melted like when you cast it : when cold it is then back to its perfect geometrical structure, so back to its minimum hardness.

The same logic can be used to understand the hardness of steel versus the hardness of iron : the small carbon atoms fill up the spaces between the iron atoms, so they won't let these atoms move freely. The more you fill up the gaps, the more you have a hard metal.

Would love to see more of your work, so please keep posting !

Bonjour Tenruy,

Merci et thank you very much.

Tu as bien compris ce que je ne pouvais expliquer facilement en anglais.

You have understand and your writting is very near ( mine )..........if I have can write this in english.

La beauté et la qualité de travail de Mario est agréable, pour nous tous, je pense pouvoir l'affirmer....ainsi au nom de tous.

The work of Mario, is marvelous, I think we are all agree with that.

Belle journée et merci pour ce texte en anglais.

have all a good and beautiful day.

Michel Zim

Bonsoir!
First of all - thank you very much for the kind words.

Second - i like to explain, why Michel is absolutely right, when he says, that a milled/forged material is best choice!

I think the pictures below are self-explanatory:



In this last picture you see the ring. To get a fine constitution, the Sterling Silver must rolled (laminer) 50 percent at minimum, better 75 percent and then recrystalised (glowed). So if you want to fabricate this ring from one sheet, you have to be very strong. The sheet (plaque) would have to be 11,4 mm (better more) before rolling!


I am not that strong and i don't want to have soldering seams (brasure) on this ring also.
So please Michel, don't be disappointed

Dear Mario,

Thank you for your design and explains.

Often I start with a ingot of 10 mm to obtain a sheet of silver of 45/10 mm ( for the corner like in your design ) to make some big ring in sterling silver.

I have an old french rolling mills able to take ingot of 24 mm, it is very rare now. It a great chance for me.

I am not disapointed of you.......( just about casting ) so have a big smile......... like on your picture.

Have a very good day and I'm ( we ) very happy to see your beautiful work.

Michel Zim